Boroscope Ascendancy.. Webinar..New REq's for Engines

How to keep the Cessna 170 flying and airworthy.

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gfeher
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Re: Boroscope Ascendancy.. Webinar..New REq's for Engines

Post by gfeher »

M-0 requires a cylinder borescope inspection regardless of the compression test results. See section 6-4.11. Cylinder Inspections on p. 6-102 of M-0, where it says "A complete cylinder inspection entails the tasks described in the respective sections [of] Table 6-19 below." Table 6-19, of course, states "Check cylinder differential pressure...Section 6-4.11.2" Then on the next line, separately states "Inspect engine cylinders with borescope...Section 6-4.11.3" While the compression check section (6-4.11.2) mentions/requires borescope inspection after certain compression test results (including failure), the borescope section (6-4.11.3) independently requires a cylinder borescope inspection. Sorry for the bad news for some of you folks. But I think that once you or your mechanic picks up one of the more reasonable borescopes, like the ViVidea one, you will find it very useful/helpful, as I have.

As I mentioned in another thread a while ago, I have a Vividea VA-400 borescope. I recently picked up the new VA-B2 Airbox WiFi IPhone/IPad adaptor now sold by Vividea for the borescope. I really like it. It allows you to connect any iOS device to the borescope via WiFi. The Airbox is small, only about 1 1/2" wide x 3 1/2" long x 1/2" thick, and the borescope directly connects to the Airbox via the borescope's USB cord. The Airbox then connects to a power supply via its micro-USB port, either through a short USB cable (supplied with the Airbox) connected to a USB power source (like a computer), or through a user-supplied stand alone 5V, 2A DC power cord. (I recommend a stand alone power supply/cord. I bought one for about $5-6 on Amazon.) Once you plug in the Airbox, it immediately powers up itself and the borescope, and transmits a WiFI signal. You open up your IPad (or other device), connect it to the WiFi signal, and then open up the free Airbox app that you previously downloaded from the App Store. When you open the app, it immediately begins showing the image from the borescope. After the first time you connect to the WiFi signal, your device will automatically connect to the WiFi whenever you use the Airbox/borescope later. It's pretty straightforward. In my setup (using my power cord), the borescope is connected to the Airbox, which is connected to the power cord, which is connected to an extension cord going to a wall outlet. The image is shown on my IPad, which isn't physically connected to anything. Works very well. I think the IPad screen is the perfect size for viewing the images, and because it isn't connected to anything, I can put it anywhere (like prop it up on top of the cylinders), and easily move it around. I have not notice any delay in the image due to the WiFi connection. Another A&P who also has been playing with my borescope, also likes the Airbox setup the best.

Aside from doing cylinder inspections, I've found that the ViVidia boresope is very helpful for other inspections, like seeing the backside of exhaust risers, and seeing surfaces in other hard to see engine areas. Because of the rigid wand and articulating tip, I've even found that you can use the wand to light areas even if you can't see anything with the camera. You can shove the wand into a tight area and rotate the head to shine the light in an area that you cannot otherwise light up. I'm not trying to sell the thing, just trying to show that you can make lemonade from lemons if borescope cylinder inspections are now required. BTW, there is a bit of a learning curve with the borescope. You need to play with it a while before you can get the most out of it.

Sorry for the long post, but I thought a pirep might be helpful.
Gene Feher
Argyle (1C3), NY
'52 170B N2315D s/n 20467 C-145-2
Experimental J3 Cub Copy N7GW O-200
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GAHorn
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Re: Boroscope Ascendancy.. Webinar..New REq's for Engines

Post by GAHorn »

Of course, all this begs the question... WHEN is a compression-test required? 8)

The 100 hr Inspection called for in the Cessna Service Manual does not require it. Neither does the 100 hr inspection in the Continental Overhaul Manual under "Service Inspection and Associated Maintenance".

The only reference indicating requirement was the (now obsolete) SB 03-3.... now incorporated in the M-0.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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lowNslow
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Re: Boroscope Ascendancy.. Webinar..New REq's for Engines

Post by lowNslow »

How about FAR 43 Appendix D:

(d) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall inspect (where applicable) components of the engine and nacelle group as follows:

(1) Engine section—for visual evidence of excessive oil, fuel, or hydraulic leaks, and sources of such leaks.

(2) Studs and nuts—for improper torquing and obvious defects.

(3) Internal engine—for cylinder compression and for metal particles or foreign matter on screens and sump drain plugs. If there is weak cylinder compression, for improper internal condition and improper internal tolerances.
Karl
'53 170B N3158B SN:25400
ASW-20BL
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mit
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Re: Boroscope Ascendancy.. Webinar..New REq's for Engines

Post by mit »

Bruce Fenstermacher wrote:
mit wrote:It is not mandatory for part 91.
What's not mandatory for part 91? Following M-0 the engine maintenance manual? That is where the borescope inspection is required.
I see where you are coming from.
Tim
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GAHorn
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Re: Boroscope Ascendancy.. Webinar..New REq's for Engines

Post by GAHorn »

lowNslow wrote:How about FAR 43 Appendix D:,,,(3) Internal engine—for cylinder compression and for metal particles or foreign matter on screens and sump drain plugs. If there is weak cylinder compression, for improper internal condition and improper internal tolerances.
My old MX instructor would pull a prop thru and count the compression strokes and be satisfied if they were all even resistance. That FAR does not specify a differential test. (The M-0 however does.) It was a rhetorical question.... that is, until M-0. Continental killed two birds with one stone... M-0 is req'd action, and specifies differential compression testing with a specified tool.... and a borescope inspection (which, technically I suppose, could be a soda-straw and a dental-mirror.) :roll:
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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lowNslow
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Re: Boroscope Ascendancy.. Webinar..New REq's for Engines

Post by lowNslow »

gahorn wrote: My old MX instructor would pull a prop thru and count the compression strokes and be satisfied if they were all even resistance. That FAR does not specify a differential test.
I would say that is a stretch. Ask any fed what they mean by a compression test and what do you think they will tell you?
Karl
'53 170B N3158B SN:25400
ASW-20BL
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GAHorn
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Re: Boroscope Ascendancy.. Webinar..New REq's for Engines

Post by GAHorn »

The point is that the test is not defined by the FAR.
Continental, by moving the SB to the Mx manual, does.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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Bruce Fenstermacher
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Re: Boroscope Ascendancy.. Webinar..New REq's for Engines

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

Continental has figured out how to get around SB compliance being voluntary for part 91 operators. Just put it in the maintenance manual. If they aren't already look for all the aircraft manufactures to do the same with their SBs.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!

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Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
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c170b53
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Re: Boroscope Ascendancy.. Webinar..New REq's for Engines

Post by c170b53 »

I think the compression check will tell you more than a boro. You might find the obvious with a visual but a compression check will find the same thing. Sounds like Continental wants more powder for their liability blunderbuss.
Jim McIntosh..
1953 C170B S/N 25656
02 K1200RS
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gfeher
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Re: Boroscope Ascendancy.. Webinar..New REq's for Engines

Post by gfeher »

One thing I absolutely hate about M-0 is its size and the constant revisions. Its been out for a little over a year and its been changed four times (now up to Change 4). For someone like me who likes to use a hard copy so he can write notes in it, it's a pain in the tail. Because it's over 500 pages, you just can't print out the manual at every change. So I'm forced to use an electronic copy.
Gene Feher
Argyle (1C3), NY
'52 170B N2315D s/n 20467 C-145-2
Experimental J3 Cub Copy N7GW O-200
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GAHorn
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Re: Boroscope Ascendancy.. Webinar..New REq's for Engines

Post by GAHorn »

The thing which gripes me is the switch Continental did to publish their online library thru ATP... which now makes individuals pay outrageous sums for documents which have little or no meaningful revision service. Example: Pt 91 operators must use the latest data... but a current/latest copy of the old Ovhl Manual for the C145/O300 (which Continental will not overhaul because they consider it obsolete)... will cost you $330 :!:
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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Bruce Fenstermacher
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Re: Boroscope Ascendancy.. Webinar..New REq's for Engines

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

George what are you talking about. You can go the Continental Motors site and sign up for a login for FREE.

If you can't crack their code how to enter your 0-300 serial or you have a C-145 you will have to call customer support to have them help set up the account.

Once set up you can go here and down load anything you want for FREE. http://www.continentalmotors.aero/suppo ... nuals.aspx

You might want a current M-0: http://www.continentalmotors.aero/xPubl ... 017-07-31/

or

X30013 C125, C145, and O-300 series Engine Overhaul Manual: http://www.continentalmotors.aero/WorkA ... 2147483690

or

X30014 C125, C145, and O-300 series Engine Illustrated Parts Catalog - Non-Production Engines Only: http://www.continentalmotors.aero/WorkA ... 2147483691

or

X30015 C125, C145 and O-300 series Engine Operator's Manual: http://www.continentalmotors.aero/WorkA ... 2147483692

They are all FREE. Every manual and SB for every engine Continental ever made.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!

Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
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mit
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Re: Boroscope Ascendancy.. Webinar..New REq's for Engines

Post by mit »

20 plus years of paying for continental service bulletins.................... I want my money back!
Tim
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gfeher
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Re: Boroscope Ascendancy.. Webinar..New REq's for Engines

Post by gfeher »

If the login doesn't work, just call Continental at the US Technical Support or Customer Service number and they will email you any manual you want. No problem. I've had to do that a few times and they email them right away.
Gene Feher
Argyle (1C3), NY
'52 170B N2315D s/n 20467 C-145-2
Experimental J3 Cub Copy N7GW O-200
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nippaero
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Re: Boroscope Ascendancy.. Webinar..New REq's for Engines

Post by nippaero »

Bruce Fenstermacher wrote:George what are you talking about. You can go the Continental Motors site and sign up for a login for FREE.
Thats what I had to do for my serial number. The lady on the phone was really nice. Now I can access the docs and get email updates.


Also, ATS had them on sale during Oshkosk for $170. Not sure when the sale ends.
http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detai ... _ID=VA-400
1952 170B
N8180A s/n 25032
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