United Carr 49166 harness band rebuild

How to keep the Cessna 170 flying and airworthy.

Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher

User avatar
Bruce Fenstermacher
Posts: 10313
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am

United Carr 49166 harness band rebuild

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

Rebuilding and reinstalling an engine draws your attention to many details one has left for another day many moons ago. One such detail is what to do about those original United Carr 49166 harness bands holding the wires to the firewall. You see they are working perfectly except the 70 year old insulating rubber is looking pretty sad.

When I pulled the bands off the fire wall, they just snap in, no tools required for removal, I took note the rubber seen to be that of which I've seen somewhere before. Maybe I could refresh or rebuild these bands and keep one more little detail original on this airplane which incredibly still has so many such details remaining. The challenge is on.

Memory was telling me that over the years I've owned several mouse pads with the exact same color and density of rubber foam like material. All I need is a mouse pad. Surely I have one stashed someplace for just this project. 2 weeks later searching the house turned up nothing and even a trip to the local ACE Hardware for a look see did not reveal the suitable material, at least at a price point I was willing to pay. I just couldn't buy a nice new $10 tile float to destroy it. As it is now time to reinstall those wires, we are out of time and in desperation I asked my wife if she ever say mouse pads for sale at the Walmart. Does anyone use mouse pads anymore? A few minutes later she pulls an old pad out of a storage drawer just perfect for my project. Guess I'm not the only one who would keep a old mouse pad for just such a day.

Now all I need is some hollow rivets and a way to set them. The original had brass rivets with a star head on the inside with the star formed into teeth to grip the rubber. I'd already checked the ACE Hardware rivet supply and knew they had nothing like it. I'd just used some aluminum pop rivets to install baffle seal and thought if I removed the nail they might be a perfect substitute. I just needed a tool to set them. Looking in my tool box I saw a 3" C-clamp that I'd modified year before to set nearly the same type of rivet in some brake linings. This would require a minimum amount of modification to use. Just then the wife walks through the garage and so proud of how far I'd come in this challenge I showed her the rivet set tool. She looks right me and says "I have those rivet set tools and maybe some rivets you need". You see my wife is a crafter. She's got lots of cool tools for crafting that every so often come in handy for maintaining airplanes. Sure enough she had a rivet set but no suitable rivets.

Off she goes to the grocery and back to the garage I go but as I do I mention I may have to disassemble her auto rivet set in order to use it with a hammer. In no time I realize the auto rivet set will work as it is but I must shorten the aluminum rivets. I devise a method of holding the rivets against a miniature disk sander I build long ago to sand balsa sticks and the job is done in no time.

I assemble one rebuilt band and decide to take a picture to share with everyone. Just completed the picture and the wife returns from the grocery to say she remembered more rivet sets she had that I won't have to disassemble and even more rivets I might use. Sure enough she did have some brass rivets, even some I could formed into a star head, but as I already had one band assembled and pictures taken I decided aluminum was good enough.
United Carr 49166 harness band rebuild material and tools
United Carr 49166 harness band rebuild material and tools
On the left the mouse pad used to salvage just the right rubber material. Top center the 1/8" dia.,1/8" grip aluminum rivets, the right one shortened using a small disk sander while held in the aluminum flat shown top right.

Center left is the rebuilt band, center right is the other band as it came off the firewall. Right bottom is the auto rivet set borrowed from the wife and used to set the rivets.

Challenge completed and I think 100% successful. And my 170 remains just a little bit more original than even that of the original nut. :wink:
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!

Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
n3833v
Posts: 857
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 6:02 pm

Re: United Carr 49166 harness band rebuild

Post by n3833v »

It is always good to have a CRAFTY wife. Mine is also.

John
John Hess
Past President 2018-2021
President 2016-2018, TIC170A
Vice President 2014-2016, TIC170A
Director 2005-2014, TIC170A
N3833V Flying for Fun
'67 XLH 900 Harley Sportster
EAA Chapter 390 Pres since 2006
K3KNT
User avatar
Bruce Fenstermacher
Posts: 10313
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am

Re: United Carr 49166 harness band rebuild

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

IMG_2578.JPG
And the bands reinstalled.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!

Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
User avatar
DaveF
Posts: 1516
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:44 am

Re: United Carr 49166 harness band rebuild

Post by DaveF »

Bruce, this is great! I've been trying to find those clamps but didn't know what they're called. Now that you told me, I found the one instance in the IPC.

There are a few under the floor of my airplane, and they're really nice for keeping the wires off the bulkhead holes. Any idea what those Tinnerman-like clips are? I don't see them in the IPC. The United Carr clamps and clips save a lot of time compared to fabricating brackets and using Adel clamps (through the inspection holes!)
IMG_2786cropped.jpg
IMG_2776cropped.jpg
User avatar
Bruce Fenstermacher
Posts: 10313
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am

Re: United Carr 49166 harness band rebuild

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

There are United Carr Harness Bands #49164 and #49165 as well as #49166 that I found in the '48 IPC. I looked but couldn't find exactly the band you pictured. There are all sorts of Tinnerman products listed, just a matter of figuring out which one this one is.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!

Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
User avatar
Bruce Fenstermacher
Posts: 10313
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am

Re: United Carr 49166 harness band rebuild

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

There are United Carr Harness Bands #49164 and #49165 as well as #49166 that I found in the '48 IPC. I looked but couldn't find exactly the band you pictured. There are all sorts of Tinnerman products listed, just a matter of figuring out which one this one is.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!

Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
User avatar
GAHorn
Posts: 20967
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 8:45 pm

Re: United Carr 49166 harness band rebuild

Post by GAHorn »

Bruce Fenstermacher wrote:... And my 170 remains just a little bit more original than even that of the original nut. :wink:
And, you're becoming just as nutty. :lol:
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
User avatar
Bruce Fenstermacher
Posts: 10313
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am

Re: United Carr 49166 harness band rebuild

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

gahorn wrote:
Bruce Fenstermacher wrote:... And my 170 remains just a little bit more original than even that of the original nut. :wink:
And, you're becoming just as nutty. :lol:
That is an excellent observation George.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!

Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
User avatar
n2582d
Posts: 2808
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2002 4:58 am

Re: United Carr 49166 harness band rebuild

Post by n2582d »

Reviving an old thread here. Beautiful work Bruce! Thanks for including all the detail in how you did that.

I can't find the thread where someone was asking for the part number of the clamp that holds the overhead fuel vent line in place. It's not listed or shown in any of the 170 series IPCs. The 120-140 IPC however does show those two clamps to be 49165 harness clamps. I have no idea if the 120 or 140 uses the same diameter overhead vent tube as the 170. It's a moot point perhaps as I don't see anybody selling them online.

Earlier in this thread Dave was asking about using harness clamps going through bulkhead lightening holes. I ran across a couple of Cessna Accessory Kits that called for harness clamps. Maybe someone can correlate the dash numbers with diameters for us. KRN and Preferred Air Parts (among others) have these.
Harness Band.png
Harness Band.png (32.3 KiB) Viewed 34169 times
Wire harness.jpg
Gary
User avatar
DaveF
Posts: 1516
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:44 am

Re: United Carr 49166 harness band rebuild

Post by DaveF »

I bought a few of the clamps (harness bands). The order from KRN arrived today: S1592-1A, -1B, and -3A.
Size -1A looks like it's for individual wires. -1B is quite a bit larger, and -3A is larger still. I don't understand the numbering, because I'd have thought the number would denote the size and the letter would be some other characteristic. Maybe it's foam padding type, I can't tell. The band closure designs are slightly different, but they're generally the same, with interlocking bends. One significant difference on these is that the the band is riveted to the clip, unlike the two-piece snap-together design that Bruce showed. I'll update when the 49165-21 and 49166-21 clamps arrive from Preferred. Edit: After receiving a batch from Preferred, I'm guessing that what is labeled here as -1B is really -2A. And the A vs B denotes clip size (B larger). See following post.
1A
1A
1B??
1B??
3A
3A
Last edited by DaveF on Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
DaveF
Posts: 1516
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:44 am

Re: United Carr 49166 harness band rebuild

Post by DaveF »

Got more harness bands, this time from Preferred.
It looks like the S1592-xB bands have longer clips than the -xA bands, and that the -1B that KRN sent is really -2A. The band diameter is larger and the clip is the same size as the -1A.
49165-21 looks like the same thing as S1592-2A.
49166-21 looks like the same thing as S1592-4A.

All units have the band riveted to the clip.

If anyone want more pics or measurements, let me know.
S1592-1A and -2A
S1592-1A and -2A
49165-21
49165-21
49166-21
49166-21
User avatar
n2582d
Posts: 2808
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2002 4:58 am

Re: United Carr 49166 harness band rebuild

Post by n2582d »

Dave,
Thanks for the excellent write up and pictures. Very helpful!
Gary
User avatar
DaveF
Posts: 1516
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:44 am

Re: United Carr 49166 harness band rebuild

Post by DaveF »

Thanks, Gary. I admit that those things became an obsession a few years ago when I redid my radios. I really needed a few but didn't know where to find them until you and Bruce broke the secret! I've got a whole lot of them now, so let me know if you need any.
User avatar
c170b53
Posts: 2527
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2002 8:01 pm

Re: United Carr 49166 harness band rebuild

Post by c170b53 »

Dave maybe this has been discussed already and covered for the overhead vent center tubing but my plane has two such clamps attaching the tube to the roof skin reinforcing longitudinal stiffeners. The clamp fastens by an expanding metal button formed at the base of the clamp band that just pushes into a hole of the stiffener.
Does your plane have these as well?
Jim McIntosh..
1953 C170B S/N 25656
02 K1200RS
User avatar
DaveF
Posts: 1516
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:44 am

Re: United Carr 49166 harness band rebuild

Post by DaveF »

Yes, I have those clamps overhead, but these won't work for that. The band is permanently riveted to the clip, not held by the expanding button.
Post Reply