Required Placards position
Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher
Re: Required Placards position
Miles, I'm sure you are aware, but the fuel selector placard is available, or was the last time I checked, painted (?) on a new metal item that you are likely planning to apply your placard. Your placards or decals are oviously quite adequate and a lot less expensive ($40.00-$50.00 last time I checked) than the entire new item. Way Aero was the source.
OLE POKEY
170C
Director:
2012-2018
170C
Director:
2012-2018
- Bruce Fenstermacher
- Posts: 10313
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am
Re: Required Placards position
The only required placards are in the TCDS, STC or ADs that apply to the aircraft.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Re: Required Placards position
Miles,
What kind of black on clear sheet are you using with your inkjet?
What kind of black on clear sheet are you using with your inkjet?
1952 170B
N8180A s/n 25032
N8180A s/n 25032
Re: Required Placards position
Stephen Reeves
Palm Harbor, Florida
Cessna 170A, N1773D, S/N 20216
Palm Harbor, Florida
Cessna 170A, N1773D, S/N 20216
- cessna170bdriver
- Posts: 4059
- Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2002 5:13 pm
Re: Required Placards position
Mike, it's Avery # 18665. I seem to remember finding it at my local Staples.nippaero wrote:Miles,
What kind of black on clear sheet are you using with your inkjet?
Miles
“I envy no man that knows more than myself, but pity them that know less.”
— Thomas Browne
“I envy no man that knows more than myself, but pity them that know less.”
— Thomas Browne
Re: Required Placards position
Thanks!!cessna170bdriver wrote:Mike, it's Avery # 18665. I seem to remember finding it at my local Staples.nippaero wrote:Miles,
What kind of black on clear sheet are you using with your inkjet?
1952 170B
N8180A s/n 25032
N8180A s/n 25032
Re: Required Placards position
Required placards are listed in the AFM and TCDS. As to flaps, the req'd placard instructs to PULL to deploy flaps, and then displays the degree of flaps for each "notch" applied. Interestingly, the 10-degree notch is not listed in the AFM copy I have.sreeves wrote:Just out of curiosity, I rechecked the type certificate and didn't see the requirement for the one you spoke of and I see on your card about the flaps. "Flaps-Pull to extend" duh!?? I wonder what you do to retract them??? It doesn't say "push button and slowly lower handle to retract". How do we operate our airplanes safely without this well thought out FAA guidance? But seriously, is the flap placard required also?
There is a cautionary note not to slip the B model with flaps deployed in the Owner's Manual, but it's not a req'd placard...ALTHOUGH IT CERTAINLY SHOULD BE A REQUIRED PLACARD.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
Re: Required Placards position
So where does that flap placard go on the airplane?
Stephen Reeves
Palm Harbor, Florida
Cessna 170A, N1773D, S/N 20216
Palm Harbor, Florida
Cessna 170A, N1773D, S/N 20216
Re: Required Placards position
The cautionary note decal (2); one should be placed right in the center of the forehead, the other where it can't be missed.
Jim McIntosh..
1953 C170B S/N 25656
02 K1200RS
1953 C170B S/N 25656
02 K1200RS
- Bruce Fenstermacher
- Posts: 10313
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am
Re: Required Placards position
On the flap handle was the factory location.sreeves wrote:So where does that flap placard go on the airplane?
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Re: Required Placards position
OK good thanks. I thought all required placards were listed on the Type Data Certificate.
My operation manual says it is for the Cessna 170A which is what I have. It has a picture of a 170 in front of a terminal building on the cover. I have not been able to find the flap placard in question in my manual. Nor does it mention the trim (nose up/nose down) placard. The TDC only lists the fuel and operational normal/utility category placards. If anyone has a flap placard and/or a trim placard in their A model, could you take a picture of it and its location in your airplane? I would appreciate it.
The manual on page 49, does state certain items to be carried in the airplane at all times, one of which is a CAA approved flight manual. Is that not what I have or is there another manual for the "A" model?
Thanks as always for the help guys.
My operation manual says it is for the Cessna 170A which is what I have. It has a picture of a 170 in front of a terminal building on the cover. I have not been able to find the flap placard in question in my manual. Nor does it mention the trim (nose up/nose down) placard. The TDC only lists the fuel and operational normal/utility category placards. If anyone has a flap placard and/or a trim placard in their A model, could you take a picture of it and its location in your airplane? I would appreciate it.
The manual on page 49, does state certain items to be carried in the airplane at all times, one of which is a CAA approved flight manual. Is that not what I have or is there another manual for the "A" model?
Thanks as always for the help guys.
Stephen Reeves
Palm Harbor, Florida
Cessna 170A, N1773D, S/N 20216
Palm Harbor, Florida
Cessna 170A, N1773D, S/N 20216
Re: Required Placards position
Hey guys, I just saw an old post from Bruce about the only existing approved flight manual (2 pages). I downloaded it. It has a section labeled 'PLACARDS". It only lists the Normal/Utility Category operations, the Baggage limit, and Fuel placard. So I am assuming those are the only required placards in an "A" model.
And special thanks to Bruce for having those documents on the forum!
Steve
And special thanks to Bruce for having those documents on the forum!
Steve
Stephen Reeves
Palm Harbor, Florida
Cessna 170A, N1773D, S/N 20216
Palm Harbor, Florida
Cessna 170A, N1773D, S/N 20216
- Bruce Fenstermacher
- Posts: 10313
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am
Re: Required Placards position
No you assume wrong Steve.
First, as you figured out the book with the picture on it is not approved. It is a marketing tool. It has good info and in some cases it is the only place you will find specific information. But it is not and never will be regulatory. The 2 page AFM is approved by the CAA/FAA and is one document required to be in your aircraft at all times of operation.
Required placards are found in these places other than the AFM. The Type Certificate Data Sheet (TCDS), any required by supplements to the TCDS which are called STCs, any required of field approvals, and last, any required of Airworthiness directives (ADs).
A student of the 170 model line might note that for the '48 and the 170A the placards required of the AFM are exactly the same as those required of the TCDS. However the B model AFM has the additional flap placard which the TCDS does not. So only B models require the flap placard. Sometimes students of the model forget the B model flap placard detail.
And as George so rightly pointed out, the missing, and not yet required, B model flap placard is the one that has likely killed a few people. DO NOT under any circumstance, slip your B model with flaps deployed to the 40° (full) position. The possible resulting horizontal stabilizer/elevator stall and subsequent rapid and immediate pitch nose straight down may not be recoverable.
First, as you figured out the book with the picture on it is not approved. It is a marketing tool. It has good info and in some cases it is the only place you will find specific information. But it is not and never will be regulatory. The 2 page AFM is approved by the CAA/FAA and is one document required to be in your aircraft at all times of operation.
Required placards are found in these places other than the AFM. The Type Certificate Data Sheet (TCDS), any required by supplements to the TCDS which are called STCs, any required of field approvals, and last, any required of Airworthiness directives (ADs).
A student of the 170 model line might note that for the '48 and the 170A the placards required of the AFM are exactly the same as those required of the TCDS. However the B model AFM has the additional flap placard which the TCDS does not. So only B models require the flap placard. Sometimes students of the model forget the B model flap placard detail.
And as George so rightly pointed out, the missing, and not yet required, B model flap placard is the one that has likely killed a few people. DO NOT under any circumstance, slip your B model with flaps deployed to the 40° (full) position. The possible resulting horizontal stabilizer/elevator stall and subsequent rapid and immediate pitch nose straight down may not be recoverable.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Re: Required Placards position
sreeves wrote:According to the type certificate for the "A and B" model, the placard that says "the airplane must be operated as a normal or utility category airplane....", etc. must be displayed in front of and in clear view of the pilot. For those who actually have that placard displayed, all two of you...just kidding, can you give me an idea of where you have it mounted or displayed? Thanks
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.