Required Placards position

[sreeves]

According to the type certificate for the "A and B" model, the placard that says "the airplane must be operated as a normal or utility category airplane....", etc. must be displayed in front of and in clear view of the pilot. For those who actually have that placard displayed, all two of you...just kidding, can you give me an idea of where you have it mounted or displayed? Thanks

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

The Cessna location was on the glove box door lower center until serial 26996 and then I don't know where it went.

In front of and in clear view of the pilot is not very specific. Pretty much as long as the pilot does not have to turn around to see it, it is in front of them and if the pilot can see the placard without restriction (clear), you've meet the requirement. Notice it does not say the pilot must be able to read the placard.

Lets start a contest. Who will be the first to tell me where it says how large the type must be on a placard?

[sreeves]

Thanks Bruce. My transponder and CDI are in the glove box slot. The door I have fixed so I can install it for show and it hides all that, but while flying, the doors' location in the baggage compartment (for which I adjust the wt. and bal., yeah right, is probably not legal. So I am looking for another spot. I think I found one but the lettering will be pretty small...waiting for someone to tell us how small it can be, ha ha.

[ghostflyer]

I have seen full size examples some where in the documents . At this point I can't remember [too early in the morning ],but when reassembling my aircraft we used them as examples for the engraver to make them BUT now it's been mention my sign for the flight category's must have fallen off some where . I had forgotten all about it . I have been ramp checked a number of times and CASA [equivalent of the FAA] never picked up on it .

[sreeves]

Yeah, somehow mine has flown for the 27+ years I've owned it without that placard and no one has noticed yet. Good thing I didn't do any aerobatics with my fly-away kit in the baggage compartment, he he.

[johneeb]

[sreeves]

Nice, thanks

[c170b53]

Not fair Bruce, I'd have to cheat by measuring the one I bought from Cessna but the hangar is 45 mins away. Oh it's the same size as the one John is displaying but mine is about 50 years newer.

[johneeb]

As you can see from my pictures if the Ramp Inspector wants to see this placard we will have to go to my hangar to look at it!

In reality I have a different placard that says, because of some modification or other I have made, the airplane is limited to Utility Category.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

To add fire to my contest, I've spent hours scouring the FARs trying to find a FAR that describes the size and perhaps font and or legibility requirement of any placard.

Just because Cessna did it one way does not mean that is the way it is required to be done. I won this argument with my IA once when on another 170 I created a very nice example of this placard at about 1/2 the size. It was placed under the pilots yoke and you could actually read it.

Another IA I know, upon finding missing placards, would take the owners manual or POH and using his copy machine, copy the required placard or wording. He would then tape this paper to the instrument panel while he signed of the logs. He didn't much care what the pilot did about the placards after the plane left his shop.

[170C]

I would think (not assume ) the same requirement applies to early 172's as does 170's. Some of you will remember when we had our convention in St Joseph/Benton Harbor we had a speaker at the maint. forum, as I recall, who was an FAA official. He offered to look at anyone's plane and not ground us if he found anything askew. I asked that he check mine, which he did, and he only two things he pointed out was a lack of some markings on a gauge or two, and a lack of several placards. One was the flap handle one and the other was the baggage limit. No mention of the one being discussed here and like the previous poster, I have not been questioned on any placards in 27 yrs with multiple annual inspectors. The only time I had a ramp check (with prior notice) in 2014, the two guys doing the check did not mention a lack of that placard either. Most probably didn't know or just didn't check or figured " what the heck" it still flies and those are just suggestions" (Not really)

[cessna170bdriver]

Mine went for years without interior placards, until one particularly eagle-eyed AI said I had to have them. At the time (early 90's I think), I bought a cheap Brother label making machine and some black-on-clear tape and made the one in the first photo below. Not pretty, but functional and fairly well matched the condition of the rest of the interior of the airplane. I had this as well as fuel selector placards and switch labels of about the same quality for 20+ years.

This time around, with fresh paint and upholstery in the interior, I'm attempting to do a better job. I played around in Paint on my old Windows 7 computer and came up with what I hope is a complete set of the required interior placards. My interior is now freshly painted in a similar light color, and the black-on-clear placards printed on my HP7640 inkjet computer look fine when applied to a cream-colored piece of scrap metal from the "old" '98C. A light coat of some clear enamel spray out of Karen's craft supplies made them pretty much scratch proof. The plan is to take a couple of copies of this sheet with me to Arkansas when '98C is ready for test flight (please don't ask...) and apply them there.

[sreeves]

Just out of curiosity, I rechecked the type certificate and didn't see the requirement for the one you spoke of and I see on your card about the flaps. "Flaps-Pull to extend" duh!?? I wonder what you do to retract them??? It doesn't say "push button and slowly lower handle to retract". How do we operate our airplanes safely without this well thought out FAA guidance? But seriously, is the flap placard required also?

[cessna170bdriver]

Just out of curiosity, I rechecked the type certificate and didn't see the requirement for the one you spoke of and I see on your card about the flaps. "Flaps-Pull to extend" duh!?? I wonder what you do to retract them??? It doesn't say "push button and slowly lower handle to retract". How do we operate our airplanes safely without this well thought out FAA guidance? But seriously, is the flap placard required also?

As I recall, I used pictures in the owners manual, not the type certificate, to come up with these placards; just a little of my "originality nut" showing through. Actually, on a B-model, those instructions for extending the flaps are inadequate; you have push the button to change flap position, up or down. I didn't realize that on the older airplanes you simply pull on the handle to extend the flaps until after several months of flying the C-140 I keep in my hangar for a friend.

[Aeroplane]

I do laser engraving and can make placards if anyone has a need.