Skytec Starter Upgrade

How to keep the Cessna 170 flying and airworthy.

Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher

User avatar
cessna170bdriver
Posts: 4059
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2002 5:13 pm

Re: Skytec Starter Upgrade

Post by cessna170bdriver »

Aryana wrote:Note #2 on sheet 1 of the below link, alternate installation - you can omit installation of the starter pinon shaft, PN 23487 at engine overhaul:

http://www.skytecair.com/images/PDF/ST2_71200%20IR.pdf
Thanks Arash, I don't recall such a note in the B&C instructions. There's a locator pin in the case for that shaft that I'd want removed too, to preclude the possibility of it getting loose in the engine.
Miles

“I envy no man that knows more than myself, but pity them that know less.”
— Thomas Browne
User avatar
170C
Posts: 3182
Joined: Tue May 06, 2003 11:59 am

Re: Skytec Starter Upgrade

Post by 170C »

Well I am glad Miles put his B&C starter on several years ago because he made me a nice deal on his old Delco-Remy! I put his on my engine while I ordered vrs repair parts for the one that came on my engine. Now I have a spare. I have never had any real issues with the D-R starter other than the contact part did go out one time yrs ago. I find that the pull cable starter works just fine if you get the cable installed properly. Yea, the clutch can be an issue. I replaced two since buying my plane in 1989. The last one was what Niagara calls their 5 roller model. Fortunately it has not given me any trouble in several hundred hours. The only issue I have is that I can never stop the pinion seal from leaking. I even changed the housing one time plus putting in a new seal and it lasted for a short time, then began to drip again :cry:

And yes, those Sky-Tec starters do have a foreign automobile starter motor, but since the mfg makes literally thousands of them a year, why reinvent the wheel. Go with a proven product.
OLE POKEY
170C
Director:
2012-2018
User avatar
GAHorn
Posts: 20967
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 8:45 pm

Re: Skytec Starter Upgrade

Post by GAHorn »

cessna170bdriver wrote:[....
As far as the original starter being "adequate"', that's probably true, but it just seems to me that if my B&C will turn the engine at 300 RPM on the same battery that lets the original starter turn the engine 100 RPM, then the B&C should turn the engine 100 RPM on a battery that wouldn't let an original starter turn the engine at all.
That depends. The difference is in the Amps required to operate the starter. A battery that will still operate an original healthy starter may be unlikely to operate the lightweight unit at all if the faster rpm of the lightweight is due to increased electrical consumption. (On the other hand, the permanent-magnet lightweight might actually use less current, in which case your supposition might be true.)

I am not willing to spend the several hundred dollars to watch my prop turn faster upon initial start. I completely overhauled (new bearings/bushings, brushes, seals, and armature/field insulation) for less than $45. I'm confident it'll go another engine-lifetime, and I've got 60+ years of data to support that belief. The lightweight starters are just as much trouble when they screw up, according to the calls I get on them, and two engines have been trashed that I know of when they backfired during start due to the lightweight starter engagement.

Most owner/operators I've dealt with on issues of starter/generator so-called "upgrades" have been convinced to do so because of the unfamiliarity of modern "parts-replacers" with repairman certificates. They replace parts rather than repair problems.

In my opinion, this is another one of those stories where someone spends money on their machine and they are reluctant to consider it may have been wasteful. (Sorta like the folding step-stool I used once or twice, only to find it missing immediately after Ol'Gar came on a visit.... only to find it completely modified for a totally different purpose sitting on his front porch as a flower pot-holder. I never told Jamie it didn't do the job as well as it represented because that'd make me look the fool for spending money on it. Instead, it looks like it must have been a valuable item since it was STOLEN BY A "FRIEND".) :mrgreen:
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
User avatar
GAHorn
Posts: 20967
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 8:45 pm

Re: Skytec Starter Upgrade

Post by GAHorn »

170C wrote:Well I am glad Miles put his B&C starter on several years ago because he made me a nice deal on his old Delco-Remy! I put his on my engine while I ordered vrs repair parts for the one that came on my engine. Now I have a spare. I have never had any real issues with the D-R starter other than the contact part did go out one time yrs ago. I find that the pull cable starter works just fine if you get the cable installed properly.....
Well, THERE YOU GO!
...if Frank doesn't have one of the new-fangled foreign lightweight starter motors on HIS airplane (despite the fact that he directly worked for the Lightweight-Starter folks in their production facility...).... then I DON'T NEED TO SAY ANYTHING MORE! :lol: :lol: :lol:
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
User avatar
GAHorn
Posts: 20967
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 8:45 pm

Re: Skytec Starter Upgrade

Post by GAHorn »

Aryana wrote:I definitely fall into the "parts replacer" camp! :mrgreen:
In the case of the owner doing the conversion, it's a slightly different matter, IMO. It's the "professional" who holds himself out to the public and finds it more profitable to sell an expensive conversion to litewt starters and alternators rather than take the chance they can't fix the owners problem because the "repairman" doesn't know what he's doing!
It's a lot more profitable to sell a $700-$1,000 conversion than it is to make a $175 overhaul/exchange ...(or worse!, to not know how to use a paperclip to re-polarize a genny or ground out a generator-field to isolate a regulator.) :evil:

That latter type of "repairman" is the kind of guy that makes flying so expensive that many cannot participate.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
User avatar
170C
Posts: 3182
Joined: Tue May 06, 2003 11:59 am

Re: Skytec Starter Upgrade

Post by 170C »

For the record, I did not obtain a Sky-Tec starter while I had the opportunity, but it wasn't due to my reluctance to utilize the product. I just really didn't want to do the pinion cutoff unless it was/is necessary. Sky-Tec makes a good product for those needing or wanting a lighter weight starter than the old GM product. They have a good warranty as well. However, since being purchased by Hartzell and production transferring to Alabama next year, who knows.
I have to say that I enjoyed my time with Sky-Tec. A great bunch of guys & gals to work with and I learned a lot about a machine shop and how things like starters/alternators are made.
OLE POKEY
170C
Director:
2012-2018
User avatar
GAHorn
Posts: 20967
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 8:45 pm

Re: Skytec Starter Upgrade

Post by GAHorn »

I certainly hope Frank knows I was only ribbing him.

Onward in this conversation, SkyTec did have developmental problems with their starters which did not plague the B&C units. It had to do with the starter releasing after engine-start and possible engine damage. They have redesigned their unit to reduce that problem.
The SkyTec rep promised our Assoc'n a unit for the Tehachapi convention auction, but failed to come thru. I rec'd a follow-up voice mail apologizing and promising to make up for it, but that has also not happened.
In fairness, the B&C folks have not been solicited by convention-hosts, to my knowledge.
I'll make contact with both for next year's convention and see what happens.

The Niagara folks provided one of their 5-roller starter clutches (for original Delco-Remy starters) and it was raffled/auctioned at Tehachapi. I have one of those clutches now for 700+hours and it's done just fine. (I also have a spare OEM starter/clutch I bought for $50, so I doubt I'm a candidate for departing from the ORIGINAL! :D

AS for leaking clutch-shafts... there is an excellent article on which oil seal applies. There were several versions for various mod-status clutch housings. I'll attempt to revisit this issue in an upcoming News Article.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
flyboy122
Posts: 324
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:30 am

Re: Skytec Starter Upgrade

Post by flyboy122 »

I bought a Skytec for my previous airplane and after a few months it gave me some engagement problems. They replaced it quickly with no fuss and it gave me no trouble for years afterward. I installed a B&C we had laying around in the hanger on my 170. When I sent it in to B&C for an inspection the bill came to 3x what they quoted. When I questioned it the response was, "Uh-oh...Well, you are going to get a good deal." and they honored the original quote. Point being I would gladly buy another product from either company.

DEM
hilltop170
Posts: 3481
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 6:05 pm

Re: Skytec Starter Upgrade

Post by hilltop170 »

No problems with SkyTec starter in 300+hours. It was installed in 2006 so I guess they had their issues solved by then.
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
User avatar
ghostflyer
Posts: 1390
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:06 am

Re: Skytec Starter Upgrade

Post by ghostflyer »

We were big fans of skytec starters until some of them came back broken. We contacted skytec and there response was the engine had kick backed . This was with 8 starters in 12 months , one of our eagle eyed mechanics noted it was a quality control issue , missing internal circlips or soft circlips that came off . Yes,in our shop there is a large turn over of aircraft but the old type of starters /generators only had wear issues and a easy overhaul. Skytec will not sell parts for repair or overhaul. We are not impressed with skytec at all so we tried B&C equipment. Not one issue in 2 years now .
User avatar
blueldr
Posts: 4442
Joined: Thu May 02, 2002 3:16 am

Re: Skytec Starter Upgrade

Post by blueldr »

The TCM IO-360 engine that I installed in my '52 C-170B came off the front of a Cessna C-337 and was equipped with a 24v starter and alternator (or generator).
Since I was going to maintain the 12v system of my C-170, I decided to install a light weight, 12v, Sky Tec starter. On the first engine shut down after installation, I noted that the engine came to an abrupt stop with no sign at all of any compression kick back of the prop as it came to a stop. I thought that a main bearing had seized or something,
Long story made short, It turned out that the gear train of the small electric motor was unable to allow the spring on the starter assembly shaft to back off and release the drive mechanism. This would have, in short order, caused very excessive wear on the shaft and require a very expensive repair or replacement of the shaft, not to mention aluminum contamination of the crankcase oil..
When Sky Tec realized that they had a problem, they did come up with a cure and it only cost another couple of hundred bucks.
BL
User avatar
JSwift
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:01 am

Re: Skytec Starter Upgrade

Post by JSwift »

Quoting George,
AS for leaking clutch-shafts... there is an excellent article on which oil seal applies. There were several versions for various mod-status clutch housings. I'll attempt to revisit this issue in an upcoming News Article.
Is there a link to this article. I’ve got a rather persistant leak from my Delco starter that I would like to solve. It was overhauled by the previous owner less than two years ago and works fine.

A new owner looking for help

Thanks
N2594D, 1952 170B #20746
Near Enfield, CT
Let's go fly!
User avatar
GAHorn
Posts: 20967
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 8:45 pm

Re: Skytec Starter Upgrade

Post by GAHorn »

JSwift wrote:Quoting George,
AS for leaking clutch-shafts... there is an excellent article on which oil seal applies. There were several versions for various mod-status clutch housings. I'll attempt to revisit this issue in an upcoming News Article.
Is there a link to this article. I’ve got a rather persistant leak from my Delco starter that I would like to solve. It was overhauled by the previous owner less than two years ago and works fine.

A new owner looking for help

Thanks
The thread in which we are presently... is not about the Delco... but, here's a thread which addresses oil seals: http://cessna170.org/forums/viewtopic.p ... al#p124761
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
hilltop170
Posts: 3481
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 6:05 pm

Re: Skytec Starter Upgrade

Post by hilltop170 »

400 hours since installation of the Skytec starter and it's still working fine.
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
Post Reply