Baggage Door Installation

How to keep the Cessna 170 flying and airworthy.

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canav8
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Re: Baggage Door Installation

Post by canav8 »

n2582d wrote:
ghostflyer wrote:... And yes some of the rivets on the fuselage cutout do not line up with the fuse large rivets . When this happened and some rivets were a half hole out or less I drilled out to the next size up.
I ended up getting what I thought was a good deal online on a baggage door and surrounding skin/frame. Now this is what I find along station 108, the bulkhead at the rear of the door. That "good deal" feeling is fading.
BDBF2B55-2ABB-4E26-A831-402BE3FB2400.jpeg
So I’m thinking, “Was Cessna craftsmanship this bad in the ‘50s? I thought it only sunk this low in the ‘70s.” Those rivets are AD470-5s not AD470-4s like the C-170 has at that station. Hmm, that’s curious. So I look at the NTSB report for the donor aircraft. Sure enough, “damage-substantial” back in 1964. So I’m looking for suggestions on a fix from you sheetmetal gurus. I thought of cutting off the outward facing half of the angle and then fabricating a new angle which would be riveted to the remaining part of the rear door frame. But there is a joggle in that frame so that would be way too much work. Add -4 rivets between holes? Get a new frame piece? Thanks in advance for any helpful advice. (“You dummy, why did you buy that without noticing the gubbered up row of rivets?” is not helpful advice.) :D
Gary, this is not a problem. you will need to make rivet strips to rivet the frame in. It is not a problem really. Doug
52' C-170B N2713D Ser #25255
Doug
OtisR
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Re: Baggage Door Installation

Post by OtisR »

Does anyone know if you can install a baggage door with a ski fitting at the lower left corner where the door goes?
1952 170B
N2711D
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n2582d
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Re: Baggage Door Installation

Post by n2582d »

Otis,
Being from central California I'll be the first to admit I don't know diddly-squat about attaching skis to a 170. But why let a lack of expertise stop me from pontificating? :D ... Maybe it'll get someone from further north with some actual experience to share.

What brand of ski has the rear cable attach that far back? AirGlas has their rear cable attach point at the rear seat attach fitting as shown here:
AirGlas Blueprint.jpg
AirGlas Detail.jpg
It doesn't look like this would interfere with the baggage door to me.
Gary
OtisR
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Re: Baggage Door Installation

Post by OtisR »

Gary,
Thank you for the response! To tell you the truth, I'm not sure what brand they are (we looked through the log books and didn't find them the first pass, so we are looking again). I'm pretty sure from the pictures you posted they are not Air Glas as the attachment is a lot further back. The story from the previous owner was that the airplane when to Alaska very early in it's life and it had the ski kit installed there. It hasn't been on skis in probably over 50 plus years, but I didn't want to remove the fittings because of the holes I would have to plug, plus it adds to the character of the plane. It's right on the bottom left corner where the door goes, but I think the door will just be outside of the filing, so I think I'm good.
Cheers,
Otis
1952 170B
N2711D
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dogone
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Re: Baggage Door Installation

Post by dogone »

My 170B has skis. They are hyd wheel skis. My mech used factory diagrams to install cable tie locations. They are in the same location you show. BUT I have seen a 172 with cable ties much further back. There was no mention of ski brand on Cessna diagram. Poor snow here this year but good landing on lakes.
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ron74887
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Re: Baggage Door Installation

Post by ron74887 »

Otis, when I bought a baggage door they sent me a large portion of the fuselage. I deilled out the door and used the picies to mark the cut out. they are floating around somewhere- Bob Coats or maybe Ed Booth may have them- Ed may respond to this as I sent them to Bob but he does not get on the computer. you can get them and put them together and it will let you know if the ski brackett will interfere. I know they have been shipped around for people to draw the cutout. you can reach Bob via directory and see if he has them. like I say they are floating around. :lol: :lol: Ron Massicot
President 86-88
53 C170-B N74887, people choice 2003, Best original B 2007
46 7BCM champ N2843E Rebuilding stage
Cajun Connection way down south, most of you are yankees to me!
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GAHorn
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Re: Baggage Door Installation

Post by GAHorn »

ron74887 wrote:Otis, when I bought a baggage door they sent me a large portion of the fuselage. I deilled out the door and used the picies to mark the cut out. they are floating around somewhere- Bob Coats or maybe Ed Booth may have them- Ed may respond to this as I sent them to Bob but he does not get on the computer. you can get them and put them together and it will let you know if the ski brackett will interfere. I know they have been shipped around for people to draw the cutout. you can reach Bob via directory and see if he has them. like I say they are floating around. :lol: :lol: Ron Massicot
Earlier in this thread, Ed wrote:
edbooth wrote:...Bob Coats has the template skins Ron is talking about.....
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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ghostflyer
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Re: Baggage Door Installation

Post by ghostflyer »

I have fitted 4 doors[or supervised] from memory now and find each door job a little different in some way . These aircraft were not only 170, s but early 180,s and 172,s The reason is these donor doors are sourced from different aircraft and models .Not all aircraft are built exactly the same . My strongest suggestion is measure and measure again and then come back another day and remeasure or have some else measure the job and each of you put it down on paper and then compare. It might sound extreme actions but its not very costly if you get it right. We use a ‘china graph pencil’ for marking on the fuselarge as it wipes off easily and doesnt mark the paint work.
We made up a template for future use but found it not accurate .late model donor doors are slightly wider. Also the doors are “adjusted ‘ on the assembly line for fittment by milling the door lips surround to fit. So the best way i found was have a piece of bright colored cardboard and place the door on the cardboard and draw the out line of the door as you roll it the door over it. Then place the cardboard cutout on the fuselarge, checking for rivet alignment and number and curvature of the fuselarge.
Note.. the first cut is the hardest.
OtisR
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Re: Baggage Door Installation

Post by OtisR »

Many thanks to all who responded! I'll reach out to Bob Coats and also look for doors to make templates from as well. Sounds like I'm going to need a early model door to have success with this.
1952 170B
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ghostflyer
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Re: Baggage Door Installation

Post by ghostflyer »

The door fitted to my aircraft came off a 1977 cessna 172. The door has itself has no rivets in it and the skin is bonded to the inner structure. But where I am coming from is that Cessna 182 doors could be used if necessary or late model 172 doors. . When my door was being fitted , I took off a Cessna 182 [2007 model] door and checked out the structure around the door and door frame . It was exactly the same except for the lock feature . If you are using a STC , consult the STC provider about using other model doors. Initially my door was done under a engineering design order.
I was looking at numerous doors on Cessna,s before the fatal cut was done and running straight edges over doors and measuring alignment etc was dismayed at the lack of quality control on the production line .
Have a look at the Cessna web site and check out the 182 in flight photo and see the quality control around the door area. If you blow up the photo it’s scary . “maybe “ it’s the prototype.

Please note.. The above information is for entertainment purposes only and is not a technical reference ,please consult the aircraft manufacture , STC provider and the FAA for correct reference.
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