Need Fig.25-24, p/n 0512108-5 Bulkhead Assembly Angle - Stab

How to keep the Cessna 170 flying and airworthy.

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Re: Need Fig.25-24, p/n 0512108-5 Bulkhead Assembly Angle -

Postby c170b53 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:52 pm

Oh boy,! just when I thought this thread was really dead with my life story, itsssss...back! :D
Jim McIntosh..
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Re: Need Fig.25-24, p/n 0512108-5 Bulkhead Assembly Angle -

Postby wingnut » Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:10 am

c170b53 wrote:Oh boy,! just when I thought this thread was really dead with my life story, itsssss...back! :D

You must be feeling special, Jim. Bask in the moment :D Remember, hero's get remembered, but legends never die :wink:
It would be interesting (in fact, a dream) to go back in time, invisible, and stand among the men and women of that era while they built these planes. I'll just have to keep using my imagination, which offers a most satisfying movie picture in black and white; no shades of gray.
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Re: Need Fig.25-24, p/n 0512108-5 Bulkhead Assembly Angle -

Postby c170b53 » Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:02 am

Del I'm basking in something alright ; a minuscule amount of heat from a cone shaped electrical heater in my hangar :D ! Winter's here!
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Re: Need Fig.25-24, p/n 0512108-5 Bulkhead Assembly Angle -

Postby ghostflyer » Sat Dec 10, 2016 4:50 am

I started "playing" with Cessna.s back in 1967 and found many different "issues" with Cessna,s both with flight and engineering over the years . I have formed some very good professional relationships with some of the engineers at Cessna and found some of their answers intriguing . With a lot of their answers is good to keep a open mind as their answers are not always what i expect. Most of the old "guys have moved on and lot of the answers now are now say "computer generated" . These are generated to be compliant with the multidue of regulations that keep us safe from ourselves.
I have now found some stringers missing in the bottom of the fuselage [never been fitted from the factory] and after 61 years flying around in mountainous areas and rough jungle airstrips and often [most times ] over weight and having done over 10,000 hours i am now told they must be fitted before the next flight as it was a major defect.
Oh yea, give me strength. I wonder what common sense is ? I will fit them some day when the grass doesn't need mowing.
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Re: Need Fig.25-24, p/n 0512108-5 Bulkhead Assembly Angle -

Postby ghostflyer » Sat Dec 10, 2016 4:55 am

What I should have said in the old days , there was a bit of common sense around , and if it looked good it flew . When i have had a problem with a aircraft in the years gone by i was often asked "what would you suggest to fix the problem?' We would fix the issue and then tell Cessna what we had done. There were different rules then . AND we had a few laughs in the progress
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Re: Need Fig.25-24, p/n 0512108-5 Bulkhead Assembly Angle -

Postby learaviator » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:56 pm

My 170A, s/n - 19267 has round holes, no slots. However, I noticed when I removed it, it moved forward a bit, causing mis alignment of the holes. There were two small shims on the forward attach points but it seems like it might need another. I will know more when I go back together with it. I could see where the slotted holes would be necessary on some.
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Re: Need Fig.25-24, p/n 0512108-5 Bulkhead Assembly Angle -

Postby Bruce Fenstermacher » Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:07 pm

Wanted to update this thread. Since my call in the 170 News for inspection of this part and then the reporting back to me the findings, in addition to those aircraft or brackets identified so far in this thread, we now have a list of 16 known slotted brackets. More important a pattern is starting to form of a serial number range they where used.

Of the 16 known examples, 9 of them are '52 B models, the earliest being serial 20292 and the latest being 25255. 5 of them we do not have identified to a serial number. Of the last 2, 1 is on a '49 and 1 is on '55s. I'm thinking the last 2 could be because of replacement of that part with a slotted example. It is early to say but it looks like the slotted brackets where used starting with the the '52 B model or very early in the B model production. It might have been Cessna found it difficult or perhaps anticipated difficulty in installing the new design elevator with brackets with holes and made the the change from the A model. Cessna may have found it unnecessary to make slots and went back to holes. Or perhaps even those brackets on A models have holes drilled in slight different place than the later B models.

Another interesting piece of information was received. It is possible to have a slotted part and not be able to detect it cause the nut and washer can cover the entire slot. So just because you can't see evidence of a slot on your aircraft does not mean the part is not slotted.

So while everyone should check their 170 regardless of year and report any slots found with serial. I'm fairly convinced that starting in '52 the part was slotted and that ended at some point. While I didn't ask I've had several reports of aircraft not having evidence of slots. As I stated earlier this does not mean they aren't slotted but we have several '53 and '54 reports of holes the earliest serial as of now being 25400.

Hopefully I'll kept getting reports an I can keep expanding my list to get a more definitive picture of what really happened at Cessna.

Keep the reports coming to me in a PM or email

Thanks
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Re: Need Fig.25-24, p/n 0512108-5 Bulkhead Assembly Angle -

Postby wingnut » Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:11 pm

Well dang it. I missed an opportunity to add some credible info. Back late winter I bought an inventory from an older gentleman that used to do structural repair work, mostly Cessna 100 series. Among the inventory, I was pleased to see a new old stock complete tailcone assembly PN# 0591200-4 (see figure 25 in the B model IPC) and it still had the original Cessna pick tag wired to one of the 4 holes of the angle we are discussing. The angle that was riveted to the assembly had round holes, BUT......................it had a slotted hole angle wired to the round hole angle, with the SAME wire the pick tag was attached with. To me that is an indication that Cessna made that angle and possibly provided it as a "here you go, you might need this" part. Wish I had taken a picture. I have since installed that tailcone assy to an aircraft. I'm kicking myself now. I had forgotten about this debate being on the forum.
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Re: Need Fig.25-24, p/n 0512108-5 Bulkhead Assembly Angle -

Postby Bruce Fenstermacher » Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:30 pm

So now you have a slotted angle in stock :D
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Re: Need Fig.25-24, p/n 0512108-5 Bulkhead Assembly Angle -

Postby jjk4lists@comcast.net » Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:40 pm

A few more data points verified (nuts/washers removed) at our airport (3CK, Lake in the Hills, IL):
- 170A s/n 19120 has round holes. This is our aircraft (1949), with documented damage to the tail but no mention of changing the angle.
- 170A s/n 19760 has round holes.
- 170B s/n 20640 has slotted holes. There is no documentation of repair or change of the angle. The bolts were in the center of the holes. The holes look milled. Angle and holes are chromated (do not look homemade). Rivets on angle look factory original.

The slots are 0.155" longer, by that I mean the opening is 0.410" long.

Hole ( ) is .0255" diameter.
Slot ( ) is 0.255" wide and 0.410" long.

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Re: Need Fig.25-24, p/n 0512108-5 Bulkhead Assembly Angle -

Postby DaveF » Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:08 am

Holes circular. ‘54 170B, s/n 26498
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Re: Need Fig.25-24, p/n 0512108-5 Bulkhead Assembly Angle -

Postby Bruce Fenstermacher » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:22 am

That's 19 slotted parts so far. With 2 exceptions, all are on '52s.

The newest '52 reported is 120 from the end of the '52 model year. I'd bet most '52s, if not all of them, have or had slots. I have two early '53s that report holes. So maybe they went back to holes early in '53.

We need more data.
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Re: Need Fig.25-24, p/n 0512108-5 Bulkhead Assembly Angle -

Postby ghostflyer » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:47 am

Cessna 170A serial number 19006 has round holes
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Re: Need Fig.25-24, p/n 0512108-5 Bulkhead Assembly Angle -

Postby Bruce Fenstermacher » Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:00 pm

ghostflyer wrote:Cessna 170A serial number 19006 has round holes


If you report it twice, does that make the round holes slotted? However I'm glad you reported again cause I didn't have a name associated with the serial on my list. :wink:
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Re: Need Fig.25-24, p/n 0512108-5 Bulkhead Assembly Angle -

Postby ghostflyer » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:05 am

It’s old age that’s become permanent . Now what was I talking about , have to ask the wife . :lol:
What holes? Holes are round aren’t they?
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