Winterization plate outline request

How to keep the Cessna 170 flying and airworthy.

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Re: Winterization plate outline request

Postby Bruce Fenstermacher » Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:35 pm

No I have not had any luck with anyone coming forward the later cowl plates they can take a off picture and give dimensions.
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Re: Winterization plate outline request

Postby Aryana » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:31 am

I haven't been able to find mine yet Bruce. I have no idea where they got squirreled away but will keep looking.
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Re: Winterization plate outline request

Postby Bruce Fenstermacher » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:33 am

Over 5 years ago I decided to build myself a set of real winterization plates. This thread (and a few others I think) document what I built for myself. My plates where for the '52 and earlier cowl. At the time and maybe a few times since we have asked for someone to take pictures of their later ('53 and newer) plates with a ruler for scale and maybe document a few measurements for others.

All this time I've not been able to get my hands on pictures and measurements. That is until last week. One of the 170 owners on the Facebook site said he had one plate and needed another. I asked him to measure it and post the info. He offered to just send me the plate so I could measure it. I offered if he sent it I'd attempt to duplicate it for him. It arrived yesterday. I duplicated it today. Can you tell which one I built?

IMG_3106.JPG


This plate is easier to hammer out than the earlier version cause the flange isn't as large and shrinking the aluminum around the flange is easier. However it does have two parts and slots. I believe the original is made from 2024 and my duplicate is made out of 3003-H14 so I can anneal it so it's workable. Tomorrow I may try to make one out of 2024-T0 as I think I saw a sheet large enough in my stuff. The color might match the original better. The 3003 is perfectly fine for the application however as I've learned not to anneal the entire sheet, only those parts I'm working. By the time the aluminum is formed it has work hardened again.

One last pieces of this puzzle is the length and width of the straps this later plate uses to clamp onto the center grill. I could figure it out but I have to get some time with a new cowling and there isn't any currently in my travels. I wonder if anyone has any of these straps they could measure for me.

Since starting this project 5 years ago I thought if I could figure out how to make these things a little more professional looking, and faster to produce so I wouldn't have to charge so much for the time, and I'd offer to make them for others. I'm very close I think and will likely be posting in the TradeMart soon.
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Re: Winterization plate outline request

Postby nippaero » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:21 pm

Nice Bruce. Did we ever get the early covers documented as far as the dimensions? I saw the oil cooler picture at the beginning of this thread. I'm looking for dimensions for the 52 B model.
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Re: Winterization plate outline request

Postby gahorn » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:06 pm

Bruce, the talents you have and the workmanship you accomplish are good enough that I don't think you could ever be accused of selling owner-produced parts. I don't think bluEldr's "fuzz" could tell the difference from OEM. :lol:

Very nice work. If I lived up "nawth" I'd seriously consider it.
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Re: Winterization plate outline request

Postby Bruce Fenstermacher » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:32 pm

Mike, I thought I had posted the dimensions but when I went looking for them I couldn't find them so maybe I did not. I then started through my computer looking and did not come up with a clean drawing. Started to work on one and didn't complete it. I'll work on that for you.
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Re: Winterization plate outline request

Postby nippaero » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:42 pm

No worries. Great job on the plates you made BTW. I have kind of decided to make some custom plates because I don't want to block off my cabin heat. I started making some templates this week out of manila folder material. I saw Scott's post on FB and am really interested in the forming process and improving my skills working with sheet metal. I just got my hands on some .050 6061.

Have you seen this video on hydroforming with a rubber block and press? I'm wondering if these plates and other parts could be formed using this process rather than hammering them out?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw5yEMsDxR8
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Re: Winterization plate outline request

Postby Bruce Fenstermacher » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:47 pm

Mike, yes I've seen the video on hydro forming and it is very interesting. Fact is I've watched it over and over.I wanted to try it but couldn't come up with the raw material cheap enough. My time is one thing but spending $80 on the neoprene pad is another. Specially since there is no guarantee it would work. I also tried Flow Forming which looked promising. And maybe with lots of experimentation I could get it. But the early cowl plates are to deep and I eventually ripped the aluminum trying to stretch it into the corners. I've been working on this from time to time for some time.

I thought Scott had a hydro forming machine handy. When he said he hammered them out with a rawhide hammer, well, my enthusiasm for the project was renewed. I got out my rawhide hammer, which I'd tried before. And with another tip making the form my technique clicked. Also the later B model design is easier cause it's not as deep. However it is two pieces that have to be formed then drilled correctly and even slotted. Lots of room to destroy a part in the process.

Good luck with the 6061. Notice Scott (and other metal workers on the web) don't give all the details. Usually they whip up a flawless polished thing-a-ma-bob and show you the entire process but don't tell you the allow or hardness.

I'm using 3003-H14. I believe the originals where 2024-0 then hardened or T3 formed while annealed. Not a process you can do in your home shop. I've annealed the 3003-H14 but and trying to eliminate the process and form at H14. I'm using .032 just like the originals.

BTW this afternoon I believe I cracked the nut on the process to make the early cowl plates to the standard I want. So I'll be making them available in a day or so. Just have to get some more 3003 and actually make a set complete.

I certainly understand your desire to not block the hot air intake in the cowl. I believe all my efforts making plates early on are chronicled on the forum including a version that did not block the intake. In fact I thought it would actually increase the ram air and thus the system. In fact if it did improve the system it may have been in my head, but one way or another I think I felt warmer.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!

Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email:
N7A '49 170A -More original than most making folks GREEN with envy
N42532 '45 J-3 Clipped Wing Cub
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