The Avcon conversion with Hartzel prop. was installed in my '52 B model some 30 years ago. The 337 was never completed. In order for my mechanic to bring the docs. into compliance with a 337 he is requesting the complete STC data package for reference. I currently have only the STC certificate. I sent the current STC holder a copy of the log book pages documenting the installation of the engine and prop. Then I called the current STC holder to ask to purchase from him the STC data package (to include any installation drawings and parts lists) but after my initial contact with him, I am no longer getting call backs or response. Its been about a month now and my plane is now grounded. I've contacted the FAA certification branch and they cannot give me any options other than to keep trying to make contact with the current STC holder.
I would be interested in knowing if anyone else has had an issue of the same.
Thanks,
Rich and Janet
180HP Avcon STC data package
Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher
Re: 180HP Avcon STC data package
Hello Rich/Janet!
The Avcon (also sometimes known as a "Bush") conversion STC owned by
Robert or Barbara Williams
213 N. Clark Udall KS 67146 ,
tell Phone: 620-782-3317 can be very difficult sometimes due to lack of response from the owners. This subject raises it's ugly head over and over again, not only here, but at other aviation forums also.
I do not know why they seem such poor business people. Besides lack-of-response, failure to provide as promised, and poor customer support, I also occasionally get complaints of deposits paid yet no product produced.
Perhaps one of our 170 Assn member can help you. May I encourage you to join our association at our HOME page, or by emailing headquarters@cessna170.org . I see that our headquarters lists the Avcon Drawings List for $7 to Members.
Good luck!
The Avcon (also sometimes known as a "Bush") conversion STC owned by
Robert or Barbara Williams
213 N. Clark Udall KS 67146 ,
tell Phone: 620-782-3317 can be very difficult sometimes due to lack of response from the owners. This subject raises it's ugly head over and over again, not only here, but at other aviation forums also.
I do not know why they seem such poor business people. Besides lack-of-response, failure to provide as promised, and poor customer support, I also occasionally get complaints of deposits paid yet no product produced.
Perhaps one of our 170 Assn member can help you. May I encourage you to join our association at our HOME page, or by emailing headquarters@cessna170.org . I see that our headquarters lists the Avcon Drawings List for $7 to Members.
Good luck!
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
Re: 180HP Avcon STC data package
janetk wrote:The Avcon conversion with Hartzel prop. was installed in my '52 B model some 30 years ago. The 337 was never completed. In order for my mechanic to bring the docs. into compliance with a 337 he is requesting the complete STC data package for reference. I currently have only the STC certificate. I sent the current STC holder a copy of the log book pages documenting the installation of the engine and prop. Then I called the current STC holder to ask to purchase from him the STC data package (to include any installation drawings and parts lists) but after my initial contact with him, I am no longer getting call backs or response. Its been about a month now and my plane is now grounded. I've contacted the FAA certification branch and they cannot give me any options other than to keep trying to make contact with the current STC holder.
I would be interested in knowing if anyone else has had an issue of the same.
Thanks,
Rich and Janet
Do you have a copy of the records from OK City? Maybe the 337's where sent in?
Last edited by mit on Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tim
-
Bruce Fenstermacher
- Posts: 10318
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am
Re: 180HP Avcon STC data package
Tim brings up a good point when it comes to missing paperwork ie 337s. It's only missing if OK City doesn't have it.
The first place to look is to get the PDF (CD or micro fiche in the old days) of the records of your airplane. It is unlikely to have drawings and install instructions but if the 337 was files and excepted by the FAA it will be there. You can order the PDF from OK City through the FAA,GOV web site.
The first place to look is to get the PDF (CD or micro fiche in the old days) of the records of your airplane. It is unlikely to have drawings and install instructions but if the 337 was files and excepted by the FAA it will be there. You can order the PDF from OK City through the FAA,GOV web site.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
-
Chris Christensen
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:35 pm
Re: 180HP Avcon STC data package
George
you may have made a minor error.
I have the old "BUSH" conversion in my 170.
I even have a full set of documents thanks to Trevor Hoy of AVION Research.
(the original panel replacement guy) I did his first promo photos in his 170.
I believe that Harry Delicker, at DELAIR, now "owns" the AVCON version.
There is at least one or two major differences.
On the "BUSH" version the oil cooler in at the end of a "tunnel" built into the upper cowl at the upper rear of the eng.
The AVCON version has the oil cooler on the pilots side just behind the rear air baffle.
The other that comes to mind is the ridiculous location of the muffler that was on my "Bush" version.
It was SQUEEZED in at the bottom of the firewall and all but impossible to remove for inspection.
I bought Harry's converion that put the muffler up front where it is accesible.
Nufffornow
Chris C
you may have made a minor error.
I have the old "BUSH" conversion in my 170.
I even have a full set of documents thanks to Trevor Hoy of AVION Research.
(the original panel replacement guy) I did his first promo photos in his 170.
I believe that Harry Delicker, at DELAIR, now "owns" the AVCON version.
There is at least one or two major differences.
On the "BUSH" version the oil cooler in at the end of a "tunnel" built into the upper cowl at the upper rear of the eng.
The AVCON version has the oil cooler on the pilots side just behind the rear air baffle.
The other that comes to mind is the ridiculous location of the muffler that was on my "Bush" version.
It was SQUEEZED in at the bottom of the firewall and all but impossible to remove for inspection.
I bought Harry's converion that put the muffler up front where it is accesible.
Nufffornow
Chris C
53-170-B+
It is better to be late in this world, than early in the next !
It is better to be late in this world, than early in the next !
Re: 180HP Avcon STC data package
I have a similar problem, although I have the 337's and stc paperwork for the Avcon conversion, just not anything else. No drawings, no performance anything, nothing. I would be interested in getting copies of the supporting paperwork just to have as a reference if I ever needed it. Also, It would be nice to know what all came with the conversion.
Re: 180HP Avcon STC data package
janetk's stated problem was no 337s or installation data, and his inspector needs that data to determine whether or not the existing installation meets the approved data, in order to submit Form 337 to OKC. If Williams will not cooperate, the best method to acquire the data is 1) determine what data exists (including what is available from us) and 2) determine which members here have all the data, and ask them to share it.
Ok, in answer to my "critics" here.... I rec'd word many months ago from the "horse's mouth" that Harry Dellicker does not "own" the Avcon conversion. He has his own STC, so that will not help.
My comments were specifically to identify the Williams folks, so that janetk could identify the problem with their lack of support, should that be the folks they are attempting to get performance from. (janetk did not positively ID who had been asked for data.)
I'm disappointed anyone should "cringe" at the thought that someone might join our association in order to gain the benefits of membership. I think it's a pretty good deal, although I admit that much of the so-called "337's and stcs" are nothing more than copies of how others made logbook entries rather than "data".
Chris, could you share the data you have with janetk AND headquarters so we will have more complete documentation?
Thank you.
Ok, in answer to my "critics" here.... I rec'd word many months ago from the "horse's mouth" that Harry Dellicker does not "own" the Avcon conversion. He has his own STC, so that will not help.
My comments were specifically to identify the Williams folks, so that janetk could identify the problem with their lack of support, should that be the folks they are attempting to get performance from. (janetk did not positively ID who had been asked for data.)
I'm disappointed anyone should "cringe" at the thought that someone might join our association in order to gain the benefits of membership. I think it's a pretty good deal, although I admit that much of the so-called "337's and stcs" are nothing more than copies of how others made logbook entries rather than "data".
Chris, could you share the data you have with janetk AND headquarters so we will have more complete documentation?
Thank you.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
Re: 180HP Avcon STC data package
some FAA mx guys won't accept copies of paperwork, only STC paperwork marked with the serial number of the aircraft that it was bought for and it will all be marked "proprietary" etc. In the case of trying to get an existing installation legal, I agree that the FIRST step should be to get the CD from the FAA of all the paperwork they have on file for your airplane, in fact the first thing I do when we buy an airplane is just that. If it's on file at the FAA, then it officially exists and you can make a copy of THAT stuff, which of course applies directly to your airplane. Paperwork has a way of disappearing over many years.
I should join so I can contribute my paperwork for the Sorenson crop spraying setup for my 172, I'm sure many members would find that useful
I should join so I can contribute my paperwork for the Sorenson crop spraying setup for my 172, I'm sure many members would find that useful
'56 "C170 and change"
'52 Packard 200
'68 Arctic Cat P12 Panther
"He's a menace to everything in the air. Yes, birds too." - Airplane
'52 Packard 200
'68 Arctic Cat P12 Panther
"He's a menace to everything in the air. Yes, birds too." - Airplane
Re: 180HP Avcon STC data package
Now to add to the confusion Dave Stoots here in Fairbanks owns an STC for the 180 conversion also. I don't remember which one, he use to be a member and use to have 180hp 170B. He is in the phone book. He is not set up for large scale production.
Tim
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jon s blocker
- Posts: 217
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 1:56 pm
Re: 180HP Avcon STC data package
Dave Stoots also has an STC for the 80" Hartzell prop and installation. I used his STC ,along with Harrys, when I put the 0360 Lyc and 80" prop in our 170B. Dave was excellent to work with and had some extra engineering done for us on our prop application. He went the extra mile to help us. Great guy. Jon